MR. EDGERS: Hey, folks. I’m Geoff Edgers, the national arts reporter here at The Washington Post, and we have a treat for you today. We have a musical treasure. I think you know him as Kenny Loggins." I just‑‑I found this graffiti over my shoulder. I don’t know. I first saw it in a subway station about 1968.
MR. LOGGINS: [Laughs]
MR. EDGERS: But Kenny is here because he's written this book, and I read a lot of books, and I read a lot of books‑‑a lot of memoirs. And this is a wonderfully written book, but it also is very honest and very entertaining. So I'm so glad we get a chance to talk to Grammy‑winning musician, thinker, songwriter Kenny Loggins.
Kenny, how are you doing?
MR. LOGGINS: I'm doing good. How are you?
MR. EDGERS: I'm good. Have you seen that? Have you seen that story? I'm sorry. It's over this shoulder. Do you know about it?
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MR. LOGGINS: [Laughs] Yeah, right.
MR. EDGERS: "Kenny is God" thing?
MR. LOGGINS: It usually says Clapton, but I'll accept this one today.
MR. EDGERS: Fair enough. So your memoir, which I really enjoyed, I want to ask you. It's very honest. It has lots of details about many things. Was there part of you that was eager to do this for years and part of you that was thinking, boy, the last thing I want to do is tell this story?
MR. LOGGINS: Yeah. Well, a little of both. You're right because you do‑‑mostly, I was afraid of not remembering anything, and so it was challenging to want to commit to writing a memoir, but once I got into it‑‑and working with Jason made it easier‑‑we just interviewed. He interviewed me for about a month or so until we had what we thought was a good timeline and good stories, that we had to figure out the order of events for a while. And then he would submit a rough draft of a chapter, and then I would rewrite it and put it all in my voice and use his thing as a memory jogger to get into the stories.
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MR. EDGERS: Really, I think about the Keith Richards memoir, which he also worked with a partner, but it's so distinctive, his voice in that book, and I feel the same way about yours‑‑
MR. LOGGINS: Well, thank you.
MR. EDGERS: ‑‑after seeing interviews with you. Is this a‑‑just a small thing. So, for example, you have a line like this, "I once read that Stephen King had to write some crazy amount of words each day or he'll get depressed. My first thought was I don't want to be around Stephen King when he's depressed." So you must have said that, right?
MR. LOGGINS: Yeah.
MR. EDGERS: [Laughs]
MR. LOGGINS: Yeah. I heard an interview of him, and he said he's got to write every day or gets depressed. And it was like, okay, you don't want to see that.
MR. EDGERS: So‑‑and I want to remind folks. Tweet questions at @PostLive. I'm on my own here in this room with this board, but I have a phone, and I'll try to get to them if I can. And if they're good, I'll ask them of Kenny.
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Kenny, I'm going to go a little bit chronologically here, but, you know, we think about this record right here, right, you and Jim Messina. This is really your first known recording. I know there were others that were made, and a song like "Danny's Song," which is very, very well-known off that record‑‑and I'd love for you to tell the story of how that song came about. I know the answer to this, but is there‑‑who is Danny, and why write this song?
MR. LOGGINS: Danny is my brother. He's four years older than me, and so for me being a little guy, you know, when I was a little kid, he was God. It should have said "Danny is God," and he was really my musical mentor. He loved rock and roll from the very beginning.
So I was born in '48, and by '52, he started my musical education, and, you know, in the mid‑'50s, we were singing together, he and I. And then he would always turn me on to whatever he loved.
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I had a question the other day about Elvis, and for me, the original recording of "Hound Dog" was my Holy Grail. I would come home early from school, be the only one in the house, and I'd sneak into his room and sneak out his records. You know, he had big books of 45s, and so I pulled "Hound Dog" out of his collection and would play it over and over again. Him and Brenda Lee were major influences on me at that time.
MR. EDGERS: I mean, you've also got that wonderful Eddy Arnold song that you cover on your first record, and I guess, you know, what I'm struck by reading this book is I can't believe you're like a Zelig or, you know, you're‑‑at every spot in human history, I mean, that song itself, you said James Taylor was going to play guitar on it, and you were too persnickety. And you ended up wasting all the time you had, and he didn't end up playing on it, right?
MR. LOGGINS: Right, right. Well, I had been performing it myself for at least a year, and so I had that, you know. And here I am. I'm 26 years old. I had that version in my head, but I wanted it done better. I wanted it with his style and stuff, but I‑‑basically, I overcoached him. And James, you know, like so many brilliant musicians, has his own way of doing things, and what I should have done was just shut up and let him interpret it his way and see where that took me vocally.
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But, you know, I was still brand‑new at it. I had never made a solo record before, and so‑‑and I was so honored that he wanted to come in and do that. And then I‑‑and then I just sort of overproduced him, and he‑‑but the best part is where we're about three hours into this session, and we've only got bits and pieces of the song, and he gets a phone call. So James goes into the control room and takes his phone call. Phil and I are in the control room too, so we're pretending to not listen, and he picks up the phone and says, "Yeah. Well, I'm‑‑I'm kind of recording with Kenny right now. Well, okay. Now? Okay. Well, milk, okay. Diapers, eggs. Okay, honey. Well, I'm going to be another hour, but‑‑oh, you want that right now? Okay." "Fellows, I got to go."
[Laughter]
MR. LOGGINS: And he says, "Guys, I got to go. I'm done." It's like, "Okay," and Phil, Phil Ramone, my producer, is scrambling to try and see if we have enough parts of the song recorded to piece it together, and we didn't. So that was the one that got away from me.
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MR. EDGERS: This other‑‑that's so great. I would have liked you to grab the phone and see if she was really on there asking, right, or if‑‑
MR. LOGGINS: Yeah, I know. I had the same thought, like maybe she wasn't even on the call. He probably texted her and said, "Honey, call me in 10 minutes. I got to get the hell out of here."
MR. EDGERS: So Loggins and Messina. So what's interesting is you guys were‑‑whoa! My record is falling out. I don't want to scratch that thing. Here you guys are again. Loggins and Messina, you guys start out as him producing you, and you are the artist, and then you become a partnership. It's interesting to me because you're basically the same age, but it sounds like he was like Mr. Bossy Pants, and for a while‑‑
MR. LOGGINS: [Laughs]
MR. EDGERS: ‑‑you were okay with that, and then that shifted. I know you're friends. You're playing‑‑isn't he playing with you at some point upcoming?
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MR. LOGGINS: Right. I sent him the chapters before the book came out, and I said, "If you need to talk about anything, let me know because, you know, we will be working together again," but he's‑‑he was cool with it.
MR. EDGERS: And what did he says?
MR. LOGGINS: He was cool with it. He didn't‑‑he said, you know‑‑he said it's time that we told the truth, which I thought was a brave, you know, thing for him to say at this point because we all have different versions of the truth, and my version is as a 22‑year‑old looking for my own identity and trying to find it within a duo, which is really tricky. It's why those young acts break up, because we start off thinking one thing when we're 21 and 22, and by the time we're 28, we have a whole nother way of thinking, so‑‑but I pretty much reported my relationship with Jimmy through the eyes of myself as a 22‑year‑old.
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I could easily say, oh, I thought that and I was projecting this, but the truth is that's what I believed at the time.
MR. EDGERS: There's one point where you actually get into a physical fight, and I'd actually say that having read about bands, I think your relationship actually was pretty good. I mean, you guys were‑‑made peace at the end there. You made a lot of great music together, but at one point, you were biting his hand and he is pulling the Kenny Loggins beard. And when I say beard, it's not the thing you have now. The beard. This is accurate?
MR. LOGGINS: Yeah, this is accurate. You know, my‑‑we actually‑‑we were reminded of this by my road manager. We interviewed a bunch of people, one of which was our first road manager, and another was Merel Bregante, the drummer for Loggins and Messina. And Merle wasn't in the car at the time, but Jimmy was, Jimmy Recor, and reminded me that Messina and I got in a fight. You know, we were literally‑‑you know, it could have come to blows if he hadn't separated the children and put them in different cars, you know, me being one of the children.
MR. EDGERS: You know, it's really interesting as I read, as I read the book, and you reference doing it with Jim, but also I know you write really honestly about your relationships and your marriages, and you shared with both of your ex‑wives this book, right?
MR. LOGGINS: Right.
MR. EDGERS: And I'm wondering did they‑‑was there anything they softened? Were they pleasantly surprised at how they came off? What happened when you did that?
MR. LOGGINS: Well, they were looking for things that would be upsetting for them, and there were places where it mattered that those pieces stay in, but I could soften the language in one way or another.
But for the most part, like, there's a section in the first part of the book about my‑‑our relationship, Eva's and my relationship with John Travolta and Marilu Henner, and then John became, shall we say, fascinated with my wife. And he called me and said, "Well, you know, I'm not going to do anything about it, Ken. I'm not going to sleep with her till after you guys break up," as if we were about to break up. And when I mentioned the story, because I wanted to check that story with Eva and make sure she was okay with me even telling it, and she said, "Geez, you know, he forgot I had‑‑I had a say in how this went too." You know, he was just assuming that he would get away with that. You know, I was not comfortable with that information, and that was pretty much the beginning of the end of our friendship.
MR. EDGERS: Yeah. Well, the‑‑
MR. LOGGINS: It was also the end of our friendship.
MR. EDGERS: Yeah. And he needs you more than you need him right now, but, you know, that's just between us.
Kenny, we know you have this incredible stretch during the '70s where you're basically in this same ball park as, you know, James Taylor, who we referenced, and Dan Fogelberg and Jackson Browne, singer‑songwriters who are writing from the heart, and then this funny movie comes up with the‑‑I just‑‑I actually just watched it the other night because my boy turned 12, and I felt like he could watch "Caddyshack" as long as I send him out of the room for two scenes.
And you wrote the theme song for that, "I'm Alright," and obviously, that led to a couple other very, very well-known songs. One of them that I'm fascinated by is this "Danger Zone," which is the one from‑‑obviously from‑‑
MR. LOGGINS: "Top Gun."
MR. EDGERS: Am I forgetting the name of the most popular movie? "Top Gun." Err.
MR. LOGGINS: Yeah. [Laughs]
MR. EDGERS: But you weren't set to sing that song. Am I write about this?
MR. LOGGINS: That's right. No, I was in the studio. I wrote a different song for "Top Gun," which is a song called "Playing with the Boys" for the volleyball scene. It was when I was at the screening of the movie before it came out, there were at least 20 other acts that were considered to write something or perform something for the movie, and so I figured we should write for the volleyball scene because I didn't think anybody else would.
And so we wrote "Playing with the Boys." I was in recording that, and I got a call from Giorgio and his office, and they said, you know, "We need a singer by Wednesday," and because whoever was going to sing it has dropped out. And I suspect‑‑you know, I've talked to a number of acts who said they were in line for that, Toto, REO Speed Wagon, Kevin Cronin. Kevin said, "I couldn't hit the high note, so I passed."
MR. EDGERS: [Laughs]
MR. LOGGINS: And Mickey Thomas of the Starship said he didn't like it, so he passed.
So I got lucky in that way because I think they just didn't consider me because I was already working on a song just down the street, and then finally, they got to "Well, Loggins is here and he's, you know, 20 feet away from your studio. Let's see if he's available." So they called me, and I said, "Yeah."
Well, I didn't want to negotiate on the tune. I just wanted to know if it was a rocker or not because I needed a rock and roll song in my show, and yeah. He said, "Yeah, it's definitely a rocker. Come check it out." So, you know, I‑‑
MR. EDGERS: Because you didn't even‑‑you didn't write that song, right?
MR. LOGGINS: Well, I wrote a little of it in that I participated in dialing it in. I added chords. I added some stuff in the bridge. I rewrote a few lines here and there and some melody stuff but not‑‑it wasn't substantially my creation at the beginning. It was Giorgio's.
MR. EDGERS: It's also funny to read that you actually were considered or asked to write a song for "Flashdance" and just didn't get it together in time, right?
MR. LOGGINS: Well, it's a little more complicated than that. I saw "Flashdance" on the Moviola in Jerry Bruckheimer's office, and I thought it was really good. I wanted to be a part of it. I started working on an idea, and then I realized I don't have the time to go in the studio and record this thing for the movie because I'm starting, like, Thursday. I have to go on the road, and I'm not going to be available to a recording studio.
Share this articleShareSo I passed on it, and then I went out on the road to do my tour, and the first venue I went to was in Salt Lake City, and the stage was about 15 feet high. And during the darkness of setting the stage before the show started, they walked me to stage left, and I took one or two steps too far and fell off the stage, turned around in midair, and landed on my back on a packing case. Luckily, I didn't break my back, but I broke a couple of ribs.
MR. EDGERS: Ooh.
MR. LOGGINS: So they sent me to the hospital, and the doctors did a very good job of killing the pain, and they flew me home in Donny Osmond's jet. And when I got home, the Percodan was working too well. So I called Jerry Bruckheimer and said, "I'm home, and I'm not doing anything. So let's go in the studio."
So I went in the studio, and I started working on a song that I had written for the movie called "No Dancing Allowed," and in the process, I think I was just a little too stoned. And I cut the song in the wrong key, and I couldn't hit the high notes.
[Laughter]
MR. LOGGINS: And so then I realized, oh, man, you're really not ready to be in the studio and doing this. So I just backed away and said thank you.
MR. EDGERS: We got a Twitter question. It's from Kerry, and, you know, you've had these amazing collaborations. I mean, Smokey Robinson on "Leap of Faith" and I think of, you know, a relatively unknown Sheryl Crow, right?
MR. LOGGINS: Right.
MR. EDGERS: You've sung with some amazing people. You and Michael McDonald. But I'd like to ask you which‑‑Kerry really would like to ask you, which collaborations have been your favorites?
MR. LOGGINS: Well, you know, I'm reminded of what Fred Astaire when asked who his favorite dancing partner was. He never did commit. [Laughs]
I will say that writing with David Foster and Michael McDonald, both individually and together was‑‑as writing partners, as collaborators, they're up at the top of my list.
But, you know, most of the people that I collaborated with are really great writers and a good hand, too. So it's been a great experience. You know, the key to collaboration is the song, is the final song more than I would do individually or either of us, you know. In other words, is the collaboration making things better, or is it going down to the least common denominator? And most of the time, the people that I got to work with made music with me that was better than us individually.
MR. EDGERS: Yeah.
MR. LOGGINS: You know, of course, like the best example is "What a Fool Believes" with Michael.
MR. EDGERS: Which I really hope people will go back and listen to. I mean, his song, his version of your song is more famous and, you know, won lots of Grammys, but I loved‑‑I like your version. You kind of slag on it in your book, but I think it's an excellent version, too. Does he sing on that on your version?
MR. LOGGINS: Not on that version, no. He was on the road when I recorded it, unfortunately, but I will say I appreciate‑‑
MR. EDGERS: Who's singing‑‑is someone singing backup that sounds like him?
MR. LOGGINS: I got a call from Teddy Templeman who congratulated me on my version. He said, "It's a very courageous version."
[Laughter]
MR. LOGGINS: That's an interesting adjective. We'll go with that.
MR. EDGERS: "Courageous."
MR. LOGGINS: And I love Aretha Franklin's cover of it.
MR. EDGERS: Yeah.
MR. LOGGINS: And I don't know whether you know my version that Mike and I‑‑Michael and I reinvented the song in the Redwoods of Santa Cruz, California, for the "Redwoods" album, and that was arranged by C.J. Vanston, and I love that version as well.
You know, "What a Fool" is‑‑is the‑‑iconic because of that keyboard line. Dah, dah, dah‑dah‑dah, dah‑dah. You know it's‑‑but we don't actually own it. That keyboard line is one of the heritage keyboard lines in rock and roll, you know, that you can see about six other songs that are very similar, not that we‑‑not that Michael referred to that when he made it up. We were just going off the top of our heads, but I think it's just one of those things that's inside us.
MR. EDGERS: Are you aware‑‑you know, this orb situation.
MR. LOGGINS: [Laughs] "This orb situation." Okay.
MR. EDGERS: Are you aware that there is an actual‑‑I found on the internet‑‑and you find a lot of stuff. There's a‑‑somebody has made a tribute to this whole thing and has someone playing you, playing Michael McDonald, and it's all about this orb. First, are you aware of such a thing?
MR. LOGGINS: I think I'm‑‑I think I saw the one you're talking about, yeah, where he has something to do‑‑I don't remember it exactly because it was years ago, but yeah.
MR. EDGERS: Can you explain to us‑‑we're children of the 21st century‑‑what's going on here, Kenny, and why‑‑what power are you deriving from this orb?
MR. LOGGINS: That orb is like a fishbowl with a light bulb in it.
[Laughter]
MR. LOGGINS: So it wasn't‑‑I wasn't deriving much power from it other than the power of the goldfish.
That was taken‑‑we took that shortly after Halloween, and I‑‑for Halloween, I had a costume made where I was a wizard, and we got‑‑we got a kick out of it. We were laughing about it. I said, "I should use this for an album cover." So we tried it on, and everybody liked it, you know.
One of the side stories that I don't tell in the book is that that artwork behind me was what they called "transformational art" for some reason, and the fellow that I‑‑his art was probably selling for, you know, 500 bucks a picture, and then after we cut the‑‑after we cut the album and made the album cover, I asked him if I could have the art. And he said, "No. It will cost you $5,000." I said, "Wait a minute. Your stuff was $500 in the gallery." He said, "That was before you made it an album cover." [Laughs] So I didn't buy it.
MR. EDGERS: Well, if you need me to whip one of those up, I will after we get off.
You know, "Footloose," which is such a great song, it was so interesting to read that you had injured hand in the '70s while woodcarving, which really kind of took away‑‑I think you put it in like 20 percent of your guitar dexterity, guitar‑playing dexterity. But that opening to that song is everything in this song, right? It's Duane Eddy. It's a wonderful opening. How is your guitar playing now, and have you recovered at all from‑‑fully from that injury?
MR. LOGGINS: Not fully, but I'd say I have about 75 percent of the natural‑‑it's the‑‑what's called the lateral movement, not this hand, the other one. But you know how far apart you can spread your fingers was impinged by the injury.
MR. EDGERS: Yeah. And on that same note, you know, you obviously sing. There are people as they get older, they can't hit the notes. They can't do the songs the way we want to hear them. You know, I think of people who can‑‑who are masters at that. I mean, Graham Nash, you know, I feel like he sounds as good as he ever did, and you sound great.
MR. LOGGINS: Thank you.
MR. EDGERS: What have you done through the years to be able to perform these songs? Doing "I'm Alright" or "This Is It," those are not easy songs to pull off at 30, never mind 70.
MR. LOGGINS: Well, thank you for that. I started losing my voice probably mostly in 2020 because there just wasn't a lot of work. Nobody was going out. I wasn't using it very much, and it started to atrophy. And I realized that I had a trainer for staying fit that would come in, you know, three, four, five days a week, depending on when, and‑‑but I didn't have a trainer for my voice. And it suddenly dawned on me, I should be working with a trainer so I can keep my voice in shape for when we get back to what we're doing now.
And so I hired a fellow out of L.A. that I heard good things about named Ken Stacey, and we work five days, six days a week to get my voice back. And within six months, I had the beginnings of the Bel Canto method where I was utilizing that.
And I had a show the other day that was a morning show, so I had no time to warm up. So I had to rely entirely on the method that I had learned, and it got me through it. The highest notes were still doable for me.
MR. EDGERS: That's great. I want to go back to your relationships because there are two things I'm fascinated by. One is Darla. Poor Darla. Did you let her read her section?
[Laughter]
MR. LOGGINS: I'm beginning to hate you now. Thank you. [Laughs]
No, I didn't, but I had written about her, mostly similar stuff, in a book 10 years before this. I'm not sure exactly how long. Well, it's got to be more like 20, 20 years ago that I wrote with my second wife. And so she was already a part of the zeitgeist, if you will.
MR. EDGERS: I mean, Darla, your‑‑your immaturity as a man is notable at that point as her being the guest who will not leave‑‑
MR. LOGGINS: Right.
MR. EDGERS: ‑‑because she's just with you forever. You finally have a wonderful relationship with your first wife, Eva, and you go home and realize, "Oh, my God, Darla is still living here. I never told her to leave," right?
MR. LOGGINS: Yeah. I had gone to live on Jimmy's ranch in Ojai for a while, while we made "Mother Lode," and I just forgot what was going on in my home in Santa Barbara. So, when I got home, I was like, "Oh, we should have called this quits a long time ago," and she agreed. However, she was of two minds, as I'm sure you're aware of.
MR. EDGERS: I am. I want people to read that, that episode on their own, without giving too much away.
The other thing is your second wife, Julia, you decide to have this unconventional, unorthodox, whatever, wedding, and you're going to have it in the nude, and your older brother, Bob, at that point decides, "I will not be attending such a wedding." And I'll be honest, Kenny, the body is a beautiful thing, but I probably would not have gone to that wedding as well. Was it actually carried out in the nude, and do you wish you had not stipulated that?
MR. LOGGINS: Well, first off, I would not have invited you to the wedding, so you're safe there. [Laughs]
Not that you're not good‑looking for some people.
[Laughter]
MR. LOGGINS: You have to get the context of where we were coming from at that time. She was my therapist for six years, and so our relationship was built on the level of honesty and intimacy that therapy requires. And the metaphor of getting married in the nude was what we were fixated on, the idea of starting completely over. That's why I referred to that "Two Virgins" period of John and Yoko. We were in a similar head space, that we just wanted to be able to create our own lives from the ground up and not‑‑not be too influenced or at least consciously influenced by the relationships of our parents or the world in general that preceded us. We wanted to create our own world, and so the metaphor was important.
We had invited the entire guest list, which was only 12 people, to also do the same, but it rained that day, so none of us did it, but we actually did‑‑
MR. EDGERS: Ah.
MR. LOGGINS: We actually did a‑‑we hiked up about an hour and a half up into the mountains of Big Sur to a hot springs, and so we were all in the hot springs together during that time, but then we got out and did the whole ceremony thing.
MR. EDGERS: There's another question here from Aaron Koral. He's asking if you could share your thoughts on new musicians you admire for their musicianship and songwriting ability. Is there anybody that comes to mind?
MR. LOGGINS: Well, there's a couple that come to mind, but in particular, Ed Sheeran never ceases to amaze me. You know, when his stuff comes on the radio, it just jumps out. It's like he knows a hook better than most and is willing‑‑is willing to go there.
But there are all the time young writers that emerge. Charlie Puth is still very aware. I can hear his style as bridging the generations. You know, he incorporates some of that '80s thing into what he's doing, and he's brilliant.
You know, we were just playing‑‑I'm blanking on his name. Tom Misch.
MR. EDGERS: Yeah.
MR. LOGGINS: Do you know Tom Misch's work? More of a jazz guy.
MR. EDGERS: I don't, but I'll look into it.
MR. LOGGINS: An English jazzer, very influenced by American R&B, and I love‑‑I love what he's doing. In a way, it's kind of‑‑I was thinking today. I've been doing a lot of Yacht Rock interviews, and it is sort of a modernization of the marriage of pop and jazz, which is what we were doing. We didn't think that we were creating a new genre of rock and roll back then. It was just where we were going, where our tastes were moving.
You know, Michael was very much influenced by his early days, Ray Charles and stuff like that, and I don't know. I'm sure Motown and especially Marvin Gaye and people like that were influencing me. I know Stevie Wonder had a big influence on everybody at the time. So we were just taking that and extending it into our styles.
MR. EDGERS: Right, absolutely. So tell me, am I right, you're playing some upcoming gigs, and Jim will be‑‑I'm going to do it‑‑"Sittin' In," right?
MR. LOGGINS: [Laughs] Oh, yeah. Good for you. Very courageous.
[Laughter]
MR. LOGGINS: Jimmy and I are going to revisit Loggins and Messina at the Hollywood Bowl for their 50th‑‑our 50th anniversary of playing the Hollywood Bowl and the Hollywood Bowl's 100th anniversary, and I'm looking forward to it. I think it's an opportunity to move into gratitude for what happened and just be present for the audience that still wants to reminisce on that period of time.
MR. EDGERS: Absolutely. Well, look, Kenny, what a pleasure. I'm going to keep this thing up behind me, even if you wouldn't invite me to your wedding.
MR. LOGGINS: [Laughs]
MR. EDGERS: And I just want to tell you it's really an honor to finally meet you and to get a chance to pick your brain. I wish you great success with the book and with these concerts.
Folks, if you want to see upcoming programs that are--programs that are coming up at Washington Post Live, go to WashingtonPostLive.com. I'm Geoff Edgers. Thanks for being here, and we'll see you next time.
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